False Maria is international queer noise duo Jhane P. and Tomasz C. Since the start of the pandemic, they’ve been producing and refining their unique brand of uncomfortable electronics. In this interview they discuss noise creeps, queer representation, white people Jesus, listeners who don’t get it, and more.
FANE: Right off the bat, I love the “Make Noise Music Gay Again” hats, both in terms of design and message. How has the general reception to them been?
T: Honestly, I just thought it was a cool joke. The exact opposite of a MAGA hat, and a good way to let people know that you’re queer AND you dig noise. People really seem to like them though. But noise is already gay! Haha.
J: I wore it while traveling through some of America’s less desirable states and enjoyed the anger and confusion that some people had with it.
F: What do you think of the current representation of queerness in noise? I was trying to think of fellow noisemakers somewhere on the LGBTQIA+ spectrum, and only Richard Ramirez (and his 100+ pseudonyms) and Dreamcrusher immediately came to mind.
T: I think that they’re two of the biggest names, for sure, but there are a tonne of queers in the noise scene, or at least in our orbit. Straight Panic, Peter Kalisch, Himukalt, Slow Murder and burnt.feathers all spring to mind.
J: Yeah, quite a big bunch of wonderful queers. I love them. But I don’t think about it too much. I have always had queers in my life from day one. It’s not a new trend for me. I’m okay with everyone, I know assholes and I know cool people from every walk of life. I really just focus on if someone is accepting and kind and doesn’t feel the need to always be right. Those people are usually wrong. I’m actually more overly accepting of ignorant people though than one should be, which I think comes from me knowing most ignorance is rooted in fear and I just feel sorry for people letting fear of differences rule their life. They really miss out on a lot and limit their experiences. People who are wanting to be accepted or approved within their small circle at the cost of alienation, really miss out on a whole world of things. I feel like I’m just babbling now…stuff that everyone…already knows. Everyone knows this stuff right? They are just choosing to limit their experiences in life…maybe?
F: Do you think this side of queer culture, the dirtier, noisier side, will ever manage to find support from mainstream queer culture? Seems like if it’s not pop or diva worship, mainstream queer culture isn’t interested.
“I never want to be mainstream. Mainstream is straight to me. I don’t want to have kids, be a role-model, or be accepted by people I have nothing in common with. That is against the point to me!”
– J
T: I think that noise and its various themes are too unsanitary. Popular culture in general only wants to acknowledge trauma if it’s been overcome. It doesn’t want to sit in it or really feel it. But that same popular culture *will* “borrow” from any and all parts of the post-industrial underground and call it brand new. Queer culture on the whole has to acknowledge trauma. “Mainstream” queer culture is a watered down version for cishet people, y’know? Look at Queer Eye or Drag Race – it’s always “what can the gays do for us?”. But cishet white people “letting” queer people into their “culture” is weird, anyway. What culture? Straight white culture is stolen from queer spaces and brown people. Then they water it down and make it bland and hand it back and tell you to thank them. Do we even want to be a part of that?
J: God, I hope not! I love being on the dirtier, noisier side. I love being a faggot and a freak. I never want to be mainstream. Mainstream is straight to me. I don’t want to have kids, be a role-model or be accepted by people I have nothing in common with. That is against the point to me! I’ve heard John Waters and William Burroughs go off on this topic brilliantly, as well as people I have personally discussed this with, like Ron Athey who also walk the walk. I don’t fit in with the entire LGBTIQ community, I fit in with those who have been ostracised, either now or at some point. That is what it means to me to be queer. I don’t know if mainstream LGBTIQ will ever latch onto noise, but I know if they do, we will already be on to the next thing. Always growing, moving, changing. Stagnation is not for the queer.
F: What is it about difficult and abrasive art that we find so fascinating? Noise, as a genre, focuses a lot on hate, abuse, misogyny, etc., which isn’t exactly a historically welcoming environment for queerness.
T: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – I think noise is split down the middle. Half survivors and half perpetrators. Like, you put one of our records next to someone talking about their darkest fantasies and – on the surface, to a casual listener – it probably seems the same. But one is “this happened and I survived it” and the other is “here are all of the depraved things I’d do if there were no legal or societal consequences”. Sure, you get shitty people and abusers in every scene, but noise seems to be the only place where it’s allowed to not only thrive, but to be called art. I think it’s fucking gross.
Queer people who were a part of noise long before we were have spent a long time making sure that there’s a corner that’s safe for everyone. Here’s to them!
J: It isn’t historically welcoming, but it is definitely a place that a lot of us have come from and understand. I think in general to be queer is to be tough. You’ve been thru some shit. Anyone can be gay, gay is a sexual proclivity, but queers, we’ve been through shit. All my favourite queers unfortunately know hate, abuse, misogyny, etc. quite well. These are the ingredients that create artists. Oppression is where queer artists rear their head. Focusing on these things or expressing them is shining light on them. We are here too. We have things to say and we aren’t afraid to say them. Noise is a place to express and converge on emotion and harsh sounds. There will always be those who choose to be the oppressor and who out of fear need to try and make others suffer, but they call out themselves by being ignorant and us staying here and being active in the genre, we nullify them and push against harder.
F: Have either of you had to deal with any creepy “fans”? I feel like wherever sexual identities are free, insidious people try to take advantage.
“The Venn diagram of people who misunderstand what we’re doing, people who ignore or misgender me, and people who think that spending a dollar entitled them to J, it’s just one circle.“
– T
T: Before I get to that, I want to give a nod to all of the people who’ve been there pretty much from the start and who get us – Bob from Meet On Titan, John Lewis from Artzenkraft, Katie from Matriarch Records and Alessio from No Nation. They either know where we’re coming from, or understand our sound, or just want to be there, y’know? And we really value their support, and the support of everyone else who came later who gets us, too.
But then yeah, there seem to be so many people who don’t get it, or who don’t want to get it, and I know that once you put your art out there it’s up to the consumer to decide what it’s about, just as much as the artist, but like just how badly they seem to misunderstand us leaves me flabbergasted. A yardstick for that is generally when they act as if I don’t exist – they’re giving us money because they want access to J. The Venn diagram of people who misunderstand what we’re doing, people who ignore or misgender me and people who think that spending a dollar entitled them to J, it’s just one circle. They’re all the same people – cishet white guys. We got a reply to Time’s Almost Up, from our demo, saying it’s hot. Obviously not paying attention at all. After that, we wrote Not For You. Those messages never really stopped. If you’re going to jack off listening to some of the most harrowing stories from our lives you can fuck off. But thank you for the money.
J: I personally am not flabbergasted or bothered by this. I have spent so much time in many aspects of the sex industry and was introduced inappropriately to sex before school age. I expect nothing less. I am actually always expecting this and when it isn’t the case, and it definitely is not always, I just really value those fine specimens and will probably reward them eventually with the world’s best blow job! Ha! im kidding. Well, unless they can pay my asking price, ha!
No, but seriously, Tommy is right about things being misunderstood and also, people deliberately ignoring that we are a duo. Please do not misgender them also. There are always parts in my stories that are dark, harrowing yes, this can definitely bring out the vultures and people who prey on those who have been sexually abused, but because of that, I wield a lot of ‘fuck you, let’s uncover the monster you created. Let’s see what becomes of a hurt doll once it’s been broken’. I enjoy hearing from people who express to me that our music makes them feel something or that it can help them to examine things in themselves that they were afraid of before.
But creepy fans, stalkers? Always a few lurking. The Ballad of Kenneth Bang, those are real voicemail messages from someone obsessive and deranged that concocted an entire relationship we were (in his head) having. I kept the messages for evidence in case I ever went missing.
F: Earlier this year, you released “Jesus, Crashed.” as part of a split with Deathly Pale Party. Two limited editions, cassette and lathe 7”, both of which sold out. Tell me a bit about this piece.
T: I’ve been on a religious kick for a loooooong time and a big part of that is how hot White People Jesus looks up on the cross. Like, we know that Jesus isn’t white. He probably had my skin tone. But if I was ever gonna fuck a white guy… the lathe cuts are something I’ve wanted to do for ages. We only made eight because we weren’t sure how many we’d sell. I kind of wish we’d made more, but I also really love limited runs. We just released a second edition of the cassette with a new B-side “As If God Herself Came In My Mouth”. I feel like the two tracks together offered a more rounded vision of our catholic twink worship.
J: I like to think that Jesus is T’s twink loverboy and I’m Mary Magdalene.
F: If my math is correct, False Maria has 9 releases under its belt currently [Editors Note: I was incorrect. They’re over 15 now]. Which one resonates the most with you right now? Which would you consider an absolute must hear for fresh ears?
T: I think they’re all great. I really do. It’s important to believe in everything you put out. Would I buy all of it if someone else wrote it? Yes! I guess if someone was coming to us for the first time, I’d say listen to M1SS1NG, or our split with Straight Panic. They go *dark*. If you can sit through that you’re golden. But individual songs? My absolute fave is In Streets, from Not Really/Not At All. I can listen to that all day, every day. L.A. Sucks, Cherry Street, Again & Again, Lake Song; they’re all great, too. L.A. Sucks was the first song we ever wrote.
J: Personally I will always think of our Orb Tapes release, the split with Straight Panic, as the one that really was a purging and cathartic for me. Our first label release, and for such a great label. Shout out to all the Amazing PA artists!! It was really the moment when I understood that we were more than just two people making songs, but that we were instrumental in culling secrets from one another and being there for one another, which allowed us to get comfortably uncomfortable. Before then, I think we were more along the lines of, “Hey we like the same bands, let’s throw some shit together that sounds good to us”!
Then with the start of this tape, it became more about us wanting to share who we are and why and I like that. I love vulnerability and I love intimacy, and it is actually easier for me with strangers for the most part. Music is a perfect vessel for this.
F: What’s next for False Maria? Anything you can give away without giving away too much?
T: We’ve been working on an album for the last two years. It’s pretty much done.
J: ABC Always Be Creating. We do. We are.
Always artists first and foremost.
Also, any labels who want to break our vinyl cherry, hit us up.
F: Any parting words?
T: Cishet white people ruin everything.
J: Ereht si on ytic fo dog *winks*
Thanks to False Maria for taking the time to answer our questions. Be sure to visit https://linktr.ee/uncomfortableelectronics where you can get yourself some False Maria merch and connect with the group on social media.